Any more hope for GAE to Glest 4.0?

[MirceaKitsune]

I took a look at GAE again, after being away for a while. I love the improvements and changes done so far, even if I didn't get to see all of them yet However, I had a question that was still on my mind. This was probably discussed before, but I'd like to know the status of this idea at the current day.

Are there still any plans to merge Glest Advanced into Glest and release a Glest 4.0.0 with the GAE engine? I've kinda been hoping that happened already, and wanted to know if there are any chances for it to happen in the future, and if anyone else wishes for this.

I personally see GAE as a continue of the Glest engine, and its unreleased development version rather than a separate fork. I've been away for a while and didn't follow on what's been happening. But taking a look at the current status of Glest and GAE, I believe a merge would be the best path to the future. A reason is that no one's been developing Glest for about two years, and if I'm correct GAE is the only actively developed version at the moment (code wise at least). So imho, GAE is the best / only chance for a new version of Glest to happen, which could bring new players and get things started again. Another reason is that I believe it would make it easier to keep working on GAE if the engine wasn't a separate fork and became part of Glest again. Most people might find it better to say "The engine of this game is being developed again and advancing" rather than "A beta fork of this game's engine is in the works, the original engine not having been updated for years". This could attract new developer, players, and overall attention to GAE, and also make it easier to maintain the whole project by working on it as a whole again. Since GAE only seems to have improved / added stuff to the Glest engine, nothing was lost or removed from the original, which is why I personally see it as the destined new Glest 4.0.

I'm not thinking about including an updated tech tree too (like the four patch magitech if it's not finished). But just Glest 3.2.2 with the latest GA engine and some new maps and titlesets. This would mostly mean replacing the exe file of 3.2.2 and repacking it as 4.0, which can be done within minutes (I can do it myself, though i can only send a zip since i don't know how to make an installer). I think the main issue is someone updating the normal Glest on the website, and including the new version there. I only had a short chat on IRC about this, and someone mentioned the Glest team is too busy to look into into (although it would only take updating the version number and adding the new installer). So I don't know if this is something blocking us from doing it.

In case everyone agrees with this merge however, I think we only need someone who can edit the main website and someone to make an installer. This is something I'd personally love to see a lot, and would be glad to help in making it happen if possible. I can pack 3.2.2 with the latest GAE engine and some good new titlesets / maps and send it to an admin anytime.

What does everyone think of this? Any chance for it to happen, and anyone else who wants it to? Is there also anything I could do to help with it (can't make any promises but I'd like to try doing this)?

[Omega]

Glest is no longer developed, so this will likely not happen (though I would support a "merge", though GAE still has some bugs to smooth out).

GAE *is* a separate branch of Glest, and does come bundled with a modified magitech (I do have plans to revitalize FPM some time, but I'm quite busy at the moment, and don't see any extra time in the near future. Though, no, it's not finished. Most of the original members of the GAE team have left. I think Hailstone is the oldest. Currently, the biggest contributors are Silnarm, Hailstone, and Yggrdasil).

Technically, it wouldn't even be a merge. GAE does not require Glest anymore, and runs standalone, though all glest mods are compatable, all MG mods should be compatable (only tested the Megapack), and new features like save game, 8 player maps (soon to be 12), etc etc are already implimented. Of course, GAE's biggest problem is that it's less stable than Glest. Whereas major corporations can test games for months with testing teams, here, WE are the testing team, meaning that GAE releases are usually just roughly run through, then distributed to the public for us to test. It's rare to have something stable enough for a standard release, since we are always adding new features, and with all great things, come big bugs.

[MirceaKitsune]

Aah, I understand. I though GAE is still just the engine. I'm happy it's a full game now... missed out a lot

In that case, my question would be a different one: If the original Glest is discontinued, would it be possible to rename GAE into Glest 4.0 and just make it the next version of Glest? We'd only need the original Glest owners to allow this modification to the website I think. 3.2.2 could still stay a download for a period of time (as an old version) to smooth the transition. As for stability, beta versions could be released until a stable point is reached and tested enough. Testing is one thing I believe I can help with.

I know GAE is prolly it's own game now, and this idea might be a major change. Just wondering if it would make more sense and be a better choice. I think GAE might get more attention if it would become Glest recontinued, even if it would be a bit more unstable at times. With less forks, developers and players could gather around the same project more (some original Glest players might not try other forks for instance). And if Glest is dead, I think it would make more sense to re-continue it for everyone, rather than keeping the original discontinued and a fork of it that could very well be the original.

You know best of course... just feels like it could be an improvement to me, and make things easier for everyone. If this idea does sound ok and no one has anything against it, we could perhaps poke the website owners to allow GAE admins to take over and update the game. Don't see why they shouldn't allow it, since the current coders would just be continuing the project.

[ChupaReaper]

I think having GAE take over the original Glest is a good idea as it does welcome outsiders more (it took me a couple of days to discover GAE and MegaGlest, then I had to learn the difference between the two). Thing is though, MegaGlest is also a big fork from the original, GAE is older I think and has more features but MegaGlest is much more stable and offers better multiplayer services.
If the two were to have a massive merge together to form Glest 4.0 it would be perfect but both forks are different and it would require a lot of work, I don't know how different the engines are when it comes down to code, but I'm guessing there would be a lot of work to merge the two, but eventually worth it as everyone is contributing towards one thing rather than almost two separate games all together, and outsiders only see Glest rather than Glest, MegaGlest and GAE.

[Zoythrus]

i agree with this idea, GAE should become the new Glest.

[Gabbe]

Everyone stops on adding features to their engine and focus on implementing features into one single one?

(no rage, im not telling the devs what to do, they do what they wannna..)

[MirceaKitsune]

I think Megaglest should stay separate imo. It's too different from Glest, and I think it has a separate direction from the Glest / Glest Advanced axe. GAE is still on the same direction as original Glest however, which is why I believe it can make a perfect 4.0 and both are mostly the same.

[ultifd]

Maybe it would bring more attention, but it also wouldn't really be fair... MG may not have so many nice features, and the megapack might not be as good as the magitech, but multiplayer is a big thing. Merging MG and GAE would be great of course, but most likely that won't happen. The best thing IMHO is to update and give access to the main site for All devs, BOTH MG and GAE...Update the Glest site with information...for MG and GAE. That should be enough...for now.
But honestly I don't think anything is going to change, as the Glest Team is still busy as always. The only thing they will probably do is just update the site so it won't expire...

Everyone stops on adding features to their engine and focus on implementing features into one single one?

...What?

[Gabbe]

Everyone stops on adding features to their engine and focus on implementing features into one single one?

...What?

pretty clear, and i cant make it clearer...

[ultifd]

Everyone stops on adding features to their engine and focus on implementing features into one single one?

...What?

pretty clear, and i cant make it clearer...

Ok, I'll be clear too...
It won't happen.

[Gabbe]

Everyone stops on adding features to their engine and focus on implementing features into one single one?

...What?

pretty clear, and i cant make it clearer...

Ok, I'll be clear too...
It won't happen.

Surely not..

Realisticly i see before that there will soon be a divide between MG and GAE. Both being engines but with totally different styles and things. I can`t wait till 4 years from now, then tell tales to the new forums members about how the divide started ^^

[John.d.h]

Both being engines but with totally different styles and things.

Are they not already?

[Gabbe]

Both being engines but with totally different styles and things.

Are they not already?

hmm maybe, but there are not yet houndreads of years with tales of how it all began

[MirceaKitsune]

Surely not..

Realisticly i see before that there will soon be a divide between MG and GAE. Both being engines but with totally different styles and things. I can`t wait till 4 years from now, then tell tales to the new forums members about how the divide started ^^

Totally agree. I believe MG and Glest + GAE are on different artistic directions. Glest & GAE have two high quality factions of a magical medieval theme, and focus around this style. MG however has many factions inspired from real life civilizations, which imo aren't of such a high quality either (another reason why I don't see them fit for original Glest). So MG is a different style and artistic direction imo, which is why I wouldn't see it optimal for MG to ever merge with GAE. But Glest and GAE are basically the same, GAE just being Glest with improved code and new features, which is why GAE being a continue of Glest feels so right to me.

I haven't tried MG a lot since I don't like its factions myself. I'm glad it has a good multiplayer system however. I don't think GAE can't have one as well in time. The latest version seems to have finally added a Search feature... was happy when I seen it yesterday Might be a first step toward a real server list. Code between MG and GAE can also be shared, so one could copy good features to another.

[John.d.h]

Code between MG and GAE can also be shared, so one could copy good features to another.

This is already being done to a significant degree.  For example, MG's particle system gets ported over to GAE, and GAE's pathfinder to MG.  I also bore witness to members of both teams working together on IRC to solve Glest's old transparency glitch, and the fix made its way into the very next versions of both engines.

I don't really know what you mean by merging GAE into Glest, as all of Glest's assets and the useful parts of the code are already in GAE.  Are you just talking about changing the name and the download link on the main page, or what?

Aside from that, I can pretty much agree with everything that post said.  Both games are headed in different directions, and I think that's fine.  The developers have different things in mind for the style of game they each want to create, so naturally MG and GAE are going to have a different set of features.

[MirceaKitsune]

I don't really know what you mean by merging GAE into Glest, as all of Glest's assets and the useful parts of the code are already in GAE.  Are you just talking about changing the name and the download link on the main page, or what?

Sorry if I was unclear about that. Yes, my idea was just renaming GAE into Glest 4.0 and updating it on glest.org. So instead of continuing as the Glest Advanced fork, continue as the original game which was abandoned. But without making any code or file changes than just renaming it and making it Glest again.

[Psychedelic_hands]

I would love for this to happen. Right of now, Glest feels like it's in a state of "unofficialness". I wish a few members of the Glest team would just hand over everything to the community, I know that sounds really unappreciative of what they've done or whatever, but it would really make the Game much more accessible to new comers. I think it's the only way Glest will really prosper in the future. Omega and the mods already do an excellent job at maintaining the boards.

Another possibility which isn't as favorable, is for some people to create a new website and moving the community over.... I mean, it could be done... The Glest website is expiring right? so...... That could be another way to... bring back the "officialness".

[Gabbe]

Like you are trying to do psych?

[MirceaKitsune]

I would love for this to happen. Right of now, Glest feels like it's in a state of "unofficialness". I wish a few members of the Glest team would just hand over everything to the community, I know that sounds really unappreciative of what they've done or whatever, but it would really make the Game much more accessible to new comers. I think it's the only way Glest will really prosper in the future. Omega and the mods already do an excellent job at maintaining the boards.

+1, this is exactly how I feel. I don't believe the wrong person maintains the website or anything, but I think they should hand it over to someone who can keep updating it. To be honest, I think it would be best if the GAE team (even if it's not big either) would take over Glest completely. And if any members from the original Glest team are left, together with them would be even better (would also mean GAE team would merge with Glest team to some point, if any is left).

I don't think the website should move. I like the current site / forum. I just think the GAE team and website owners need a better communication, about this idea and what updates should be continued.

[Omega]

Another possibility which isn't as favorable, is for some people to create a new website and moving the community over.... I mean, it could be done... The Glest website is expiring right? so...... That could be another way to... bring back the "officialness".

Well, to be honest, it'd be more fun to see the Glest Team return , though working in hand with the community is a generally good idea.

I would hope that the site is renewed soon, and will ask Martino to make sure it hasn't slipped by him. Definitely don't MOVE the site... Worst case scenario, the site expires, we can pay for it ourselves. It's always possible to place a few ads on the main site pages, which would alone, generate enough to easily pay off the cost of web hosting, but, to my knowledge, Glest has won some rewards which should be more than enough to pay off the cost of the site hosting (hosting is amazing cheap these days. You can get a host with enough power for the Glest board and glest site (bearing in mind that large downloads are not hosted on the site, but on sourceforge) for about $10-30 American a month).

For the main part, though, merging GAE with  Glest, while I support it, does have the critical flaw of the instability of GAE's releases. Every new release fixes some bugs, but new ones often crop up, and when those bug fixes are released, more may appear due to new features. 0.3.1 seems fairly stable, but even it is not without fault. In order to "replace" Glest, we'd need the kind of stability that Glest offers... But... that would be quite difficult too, because we, the community, are the testing team, and GAE's main focus has always been to provide cutting edge, beta functionality, not necessarily the most stable.

[ultifd]

and GAE's pathfinder to MG

Yeah, cept particles work @GAE but the pathfinder doesn't... Although Silnarm is still trying, I don't think he can find the time to solve the problem with the pathfinder though...

and GAE's main focus has always been to provide cutting edge, beta functionality, not necessarily the most stable.

That is true... although 0.3.1 is pretty stable... but then there is still that list of bugs to fix...

I haven't tried MG a lot since I don't like its factions myself. I'm glad it has a good multiplayer system however. I don't think GAE can't have one as well in time.

That reminds me, I still wish MG could have a version without the "megapack", just with magitech. MegaGlest would still be "mega" since the multiplayer is great...

[MirceaKitsune]

For the main part, though, merging GAE with  Glest, while I support it, does have the critical flaw of the instability of GAE's releases. Every new release fixes some bugs, but new ones often crop up, and when those bug fixes are released, more may appear due to new features. 0.3.1 seems fairly stable, but even it is not without fault. In order to "replace" Glest, we'd need the kind of stability that Glest offers... But... that would be quite difficult too, because we, the community, are the testing team, and GAE's main focus has always been to provide cutting edge, beta functionality, not necessarily the most stable.

From what I know, every game that's constantly in development (especially open source games) have instability issues. I'd imagine Glest had that too when it was being updated monthly, like any open source project afaik. I believe that can be fixed with testers though. I'm willing to be one (anyone can poke me on IRC and ask me to test something). I think 1-2 weeks are enough to test an engine build and be sure there are no bugs in it, and that the next official version can be released. But in between, developer releases can be made too. So I believe this can be solved.

Anyway, I tried looking for Martino today (he seems to be the web site owner). He hasn't been active on the forums so I don't know if PM-ing him would help. If someone can talk to him about this, and he would agree with this idea, that would be great. If the GAE team agrees to this, we'd only need him to agree I think.

[John.d.h]

There's always the option of only posting stable versions as "official" releases, in which case 0.3.1 would be considered probably a beta.

[Omega]

Martino hasn't been active on the forum for over a year. Some of the Glest Team such as Jose have come on from time to time, but are not active overally. You can try to contact them with email at: contact_game[at]glest.org

There's always the option of only posting stable versions as "official" releases, in which case 0.3.1 would be considered probably a beta.

Agreed.

[hailstone]

There's always the option of only posting stable versions as "official" releases, in which case 0.3.1 would be considered probably a beta.

I'm not sure what you mean. We have a latest stable version and development version. Each bugfix release the third number increments and it replaces the latest stable version (ie 0.3.1 is replaced by 0.3.2 as the latest stable version). New features and API breaking changes are put in the next second number version (ie 0.4). It's a little backwards in that 0.4 doesn't represent the most stable version but with "release first and have majority of testing done by the community after" I think it makes more sense this way.

There might be a beta stage too (ie 0.4beta) but I would consider that a development release.