Glest forks to join forces?

[softcoder]

Plan:
#1 Both teams finish up their current work and get the code as stable as possible by end of March and release a final version of GAE and MG.

#2. By mid April we will begin work on merging the code into a new project (name yet unknown, please send us your ideas).

#3. our plan is to take the best parts from both projects and make something that everyone can enjoy.
Had a quick discussion with Silnarm on IRC, and the bottom line is that GAE and Megaglest have a good chance of combining into one effort. Please everyone who has thoughts on this show your thoughts, below is a copy if the IRC discussion:

<softcoder> any thoughts on this post: https://forum.megaglest.org/index.php?topic=6533.msg67087#msg67087
<silnarm> hi, give me a moment..
<silnarm> ok... so how would you propose we went about a 'combined effort' merge ?
<softcoder> #1 do you want to
<softcoder> ?
<silnarm> Yes
<silnarm> _merge_
<softcoder> ok.
<silnarm> not port features to MG
<softcoder> ok, I understand
<softcoder> I think we then need to determine which parts to merge and which to drop
<softcoder> I'm sure on both sides there are redundant pieces so we determine which would be best.
<softcoder> other areas we simple take a file at a time and merge
<softcoder> now if possible.. we could plan it in pieces so that things are still playable and therefore testable
<silnarm> there are numerous architectural differences, that effect many different files.
<softcoder> sure, its not a small task, but like i said if there is a desire now is the time
<softcoder> and it would be worth having one umbrella and effort
<silnarm> so there would be many files that simply couldn't be merged in isolation
<softcoder> yes sections of the code
<silnarm> yes, absolutely
<softcoder> thats why i think we can take slices and detrermine in some cases to ditch some and take others
<silnarm> if we use git, we can put the data in a sub-module, so the core project is 'code only'
<softcoder> yes... we can use git
<softcoder> in the sense of what we are doing and going forward it seems to make sense
<softcoder> ok, an execercise then..
<softcoder> step #1
<softcoder> we need to look at both code bases  to determine how to split
<softcoder> also.. would you have buy-in from GAE members?
<softcoder> and how would you want it hoated etc?
<silnarm> unknown
<softcoder> hosted
<softcoder> ok.. please do that first then
<silnarm> that is another good question
<silnarm> I'll mail hailstone and Yggdrasil to see what they think
<softcoder> ok.. talk to your guys.. I'll chat with titi and lets see what we come up with
<silnarm> what would you suggest in terms of hosting?
<silnarm> new proj?
<softcoder> I honestly don't care
<silnarm> ok
<softcoder> lets take ideas from all involved
<silnarm> yes, that would be ideal...
<softcoder> ok cool, its a long road, but if we work hard together it'll be awesome
<softcoder> the expertise would make a monster of an RTS
<silnarm> agreed
<softcoder> ok, I'm glad... will mail the MG guys now
<silnarm> ok, I'll do likewise.

Stickied and *quoted*! Good Luck! -Ultifd

_{Edit by Omega: Unstickied and locked.}

[John.d.h]

... and the forum rejoiced.

[ultifd]

This is great, but there will be a lot of work before the actual merge!... Good Luck! So many things and decisions to do and make...
^{I suppose we really need to find a better ISP for Omega now...Anyone know some good rural Canada ISPs? Because the future windows installer would be  probably be around 300 MB, I think. Or more.
Also, now I am really puzzled on what to include in the trailer...}

[Omega]

I think John summed it up very well. Full and uttermost complete support here.

Of course, it figures it would figure that this would come the day I spend a few hours creating a wiki engine comparison, but I'll take it.

The way I see it, the biggest feature to port is the Multiplayer. That is what makes MG so big. Without the master server and multiplayer upgrades, there wouldn't be much of a reason to play MG, so that should be the first thing to merge, abet the biggest. Other things include JPG support, faction/scenario unique loading screens, a few of the newest feature like the spawn attacks and a few new Lua codes, etc.

[ultifd]

Keep the chart! It shows that both of the forks are awesome in their own ways!

The way I see it, the biggest feature to port is the Multiplayer. That is what makes MG so big. Without the master server and multiplayer upgrades, there wouldn't be much of a reason to play MG, so that should be the first thing to merge, abet the biggest. Other things include JPG support, faction/scenario unique loading screens, a few of the newest feature like the spawn attacks and a few new Lua codes, etc.

Err... This is a merge, not a port project.  You had me scared there, for a second.

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[URL=http://img219.imageshack.us/i/ss30.png/][IMG]http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5802/ss30.png[/img][/URL]Now we have to sign up or sign in to Imageshack to get direct links... -_-

[silnarm]

As ultifd just pointed out, we aren't talking about porting things one way or the other, if that were to happen it would mean this effort has probably failed.

We'll be merging code into one project, its likely some newer features will not go into the initial merger, in the name of getting the job done, and hopefully stable! Once that is done, new stuff can be added in development branches, and merged to the master branch when stable.

[Ishmaru]

Wow thought this would never happen.... I'm defiantly glad it is being worked on Good luck guys!

[Omega]

Keep the chart! It shows that both of the forks are awesome in their own ways!

The way I see it, the biggest feature to port is the Multiplayer. That is what makes MG so big. Without the master server and multiplayer upgrades, there wouldn't be much of a reason to play MG, so that should be the first thing to merge, abet the biggest. Other things include JPG support, faction/scenario unique loading screens, a few of the newest feature like the spawn attacks and a few new Lua codes, etc.

Err... This is a merge, not a port project.  You had me scared there, for a second.

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[URL=http://img219.imageshack.us/i/ss30.png/][IMG]http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5802/ss30.png[/img][/URL]Now we have to sign up or sign in to Imageshack to get direct links... -_-

Hmm, how would this work? I mean, we obviously can't skip any features, or we'll break existing mods (ie: skipping normal maps, water units, etc would break some mods that are already existing for GAE, which often has developers jumping the gun before a feature is even released). As well, GAE is many years old by now, and has hundreds of changes from years of work. That does not sound like something easy to merge. I just can't help but feel that it'd be so much easier to merge MG's biggest features (namely the master server and IRC) into GAE and rechristen it (after all, most MG features already have a GAE equivalent. The master server is the biggest that does not. JPG support was a planned 0.4 feature for GAE anyway, as was the faction/scenario unique loading screens).

But onward to the biggest matter: What would you call this? MegaGAE?

[ultifd]

Come on Omega, just think of an unified fork, OK? That's all you need to think about to understand...
If this was a port project, obviously the two teams would not work together. That's part of the reason why this didn't happen months ago.
How? Read the snippet of the quoted IRC Chat

But onward to the biggest matter: What would you call this? MegaGAE?

That will be for later, we have to see what titi, hailstone, and Yggdrasil will say. (I asked Silnarm and Softcoder too)
Ultimately, just "Glest" would be great. I suppose we do have a chance once all ther work is merged...

[Omega]

Come on Omega, just think of an unified fork, OK? That's all you need to think about to understand...
If this was a port project, obviously the two teams would not work together. That's part of the reason why this didn't happen months ago.
How? Read the snippet of the quoted IRC Chat

I'll go with that.

That will be for later, we have to see what titi, hailstone, and Yggdrasil will say. (I asked Silnarm and Softcoder too)
Ultimately, just "Glest" would be great. I suppose we do have a chance once all ther work is merged...

Thinking about it, I agree. Viva la Glest 4. And what would be a better candidate to replace Glest 3.2.2 than Glest 4?

[Omega]

I'm just wondering though.....what about the MG website?

Websites are easy. Most hosts give multiple domains for free, and can usually have unlimited domain names on a hosting plan, so just register a new page, if necessary, for our new unified project and keep the same host. Alternatively, try contacting the Glest team again (quick question: Has anyone actually contacted the Glest team about replacing Glest?, rather than just posting on the forums? Every time I contact the team, they reply, even if it's to decline my request).

If one's features were ported to another and the one ported to renamed, how would the end result be different from if they just mushed them together?

True, that. Of course, what I really just want the most is one unified project being worked on by the community. No more "my mods for engine X so you can't play if on your favorite engine Y" and no more splitting the developers (of an already small community) apart. In short, I just want us working on a project together in the spirit that free software was created in.

[-Archmage-]

If this was a port project, obviously the two teams would not work together.

Uh, why? Does how they're merged affect whether they work together or not?

[Psychedelic_hands]

WOAH! YAY! 

Unified glest! the best thing that could have happened to this community! I was really scared that the two engines would grow farther and farther apart and competitiveness would eventually divide everyone to the point of hatred...

Obviously this raise MANY questions....
- What will happen to the MegaPack? (I honestly think it should be dropped(No offense to titi or anyone else who worked on it)
- What should happen to the Megaglest/glest website?
- What will it be called?

Keep the chart! It shows that both of the forks are awesome in their own ways!

The way I see it, the biggest feature to port is the Multiplayer. That is what makes MG so big. Without the master server and multiplayer upgrades, there wouldn't be much of a reason to play MG, so that should be the first thing to merge, abet the biggest. Other things include JPG support, faction/scenario unique loading screens, a few of the newest feature like the spawn attacks and a few new Lua codes, etc.

Err... This is a merge, not a port project.  You had me scared there, for a second.

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[URL=http://img219.imageshack.us/i/ss30.png/][IMG]http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5802/ss30.png[/img][/URL]Now we have to sign up or sign in to Imageshack to get direct links... -_-

The way I see it; GAE has made the engine  better, they seem to have done much re-factoring. Megaglest has more just added to the base of the original glest. So a way I see it, GAE is the delicious cake, and Megaglest is the tasty icing on top  .... Both are just as important.
       
 I just want to say to the devs though, just because YOU don't like something; does not mean it should never be in game. Glest should be an engine as flexible and feature-heavy as possible. Of course things may need compromise, but open-mindedness to anything will be extremely important.

We are a big group of skilled, talented, interested, artists, coders, game designers and players. I'm so glad we can finally make the game as kick-ass as it should be.  LETS DO IT 

[Psychedelic_hands]

It wouldn't waste a lot of time OK? You just don't understand... I guess you'll have wait until after the merge project is finished, to understand. Wow, I thought all of this type of talk would end with the announce of this project...
Well whatever, I might be disappointed at the community, but I'm not with the developers anymore! Thanks for your time on GAE/MG and your future time on this project, developers!

I just want to say to the devs though, just because YOU don't like something; does not mean it should never be in game. Glest should be an engine as flexible and feature-heavy as possible. Of course things may need compromise, but open-mindedness to anything will be extremely important

Omg...really?   If you guys really continue this type of way of thinking, we might as well just scrap this project!

What way of thinking is that? I'm sorry but all I said was for the devs to be open-minded for the better of the engine :S Sorry if I seemed bias... Which I don't think I am, I think I'm less bias for trying to use reason and facts instead being scared to offend everyone. I mean I don't want to offend anyone, I'm just a bit sick of everyone trying to say whats more important.
Because really, the main difference between GAE and MG is, GAE has a better base. And MG has a better multiplayer. That is fact, AND no-one can say different. Which totally shouldn't offend anyone, no one can say what is more important. Really if that offends you please STOP being ignorant and lets do what is necessary to make the best engine possible.

I can see where you're coming from though ultifd, I understand. But I still think we should be as maturer as possible.

[ultifd]

What way of thinking is that? I'm sorry but all I said was for the devs to be open-minded for the better of the engine :S Sorry if I seemed bias... Which I don't think I am, I think I'm less bias for trying to use reason and facts instead being scared to offend everyone. I mean I don't want to offend anyone, I'm just a bit sick of everyone trying to say whats more important.

Oh, sorry, I guess I misunderstood. Hehe, aren't you happy that more people will try Constellus out later?   Not to mention: Militiary, Sun and Moon, Malv...

I can see where you're coming from though ultifd, I understand. But I still think we should be as maturer as possible.

I'm just being too angry.   Thank you for understanding.

[Psychedelic_hands]

Lets say, now no one supports MG and no one supports GAE. Now we're all one big, happy community that supports Glest 4 or whatever it will be.

[Ishmaru]

Lets say, now no one supports MG and no one supports GAE. Now we're all one big, happy community that supports Glest 4 or whatever it will be.

True that!   

[ultifd]

We need a "like button mod" installed! Maybe just for now? 

Lets say, now no one supports MG and no one supports GAE. Now we're all one big, happy community that supports Glest 4 or whatever it will be.

True that!   

True that! 

[ElimiNator]

Lets say, now no one supports MG and no one supports GAE. Now we're all one big, happy community that supports Glest 4 or whatever it will be.

True that!   

It will be great!!!! 

[will]

Hats off, what brilliant news!

Purely technically, github has good hosting of wiki and webpages too (with versioning built in).

And it would be good if magitech was an imported repo, and megapack too.

As a programmer I can't understan all the distinctions being made about port vs merge - at a code level - the terms only differ at a team level, and its a merge because we end up with one team not two!

[softcoder]

My one request for all at this point is to stop the fights and let the developers have the support of the community in working together to make an excellent new release. All of the politics will only inspire foolish isolation and ultimately hinder progress. Yes speak your opinions (thats what I asked for), but please be respectful to everyone involved.

Remember this is open source, every split and diverted set of efforts is a possible death of the project. Developers and modders all do this on their free time and no-one works on the same project for-ever. The most valuable input comes from those who actually contribute, not those who might or are thinking of it. We have many people in the category of contributers, I ask for those especially to come forward and say what you think. By people working together we made it to this point, and by continuing to work together it can only get better. Perhaps it would be wise to think of everything with the word 'glest' in it as one entity.

Thanks

[-Archmage-]

I can't wait! 
Give a hand to the NEW GLEST TEAM!
Someone make a confetti smiley.

[claymore]

Great news. Thanks softcoder and silnarm for finally getting down to seriously discussing this, good luck!!

[tomreyn]

These news make me very happy. I would like to congratulate softcoder and silnarm for this open minded and courageous step, and would like to express my appreciation for their indirect offer of spending many hours to create a working, merged build. I'm sure this will be fun, too, and I am looking forward to be part of it (if not by contributing to the core development - just like now).

Regarding the community, and the many questions which automatically come up with this discussion, I'd like to point out that it will be a while until such a merger results in a release, and most of the questions that come up as a side effect of the merger do not need to be answered right now - we have lots of time to do so. Of course, we can start to discuss these things now, but let's take some time with it, remain calm, and work out the best ways.

The most important thing for the community to do right now is, as softcoder put it nicely, to think of everything with the word 'glest' in it as one entity. Those of us who do not really know the other part should probably try to get to know it (pointing at myself there). And those who already know both parts should try to move their affection for one of these project to the whole. This can be difficult at the start, but it is totally possible, and will get us much farther.

Finally, I have one request to make to my friends of this united community, which is to not insist in discussing all the details of the merger now. If we request precise statements on how things will be handled now, we effectively decrease the options the unified core development team has in working out the best solution. Let's not force them into public statements on how exactly this merger will take place at this time, but be patient and see how they work things out for the benefit of all of us.

Of course everyone should state their general opinion on the merger, just let's not discuss too many details, yet. This merger is a small and weak plant for now, and it needs lots of good care to grow strong, by all of us. Let's grow it!

[Gabbe]

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[img]http://planetsmilies.net/sport-smiley-5537.gif[/img]
Contact glest team and make a blog announcement aswell as updating the glest sourceforge